Here are common ball flight issues if you are playing the wrong lie angle: Unfortunately, club manufacturing companies sometimes use different lie angles for their clubs. High bounce irons absorb a change like this more easily. As you watch PGA or LPGA golf, you will see very little personalization to this basic fundamental. Custom Edel E-3 Putter. Thank you for such an eye opening article. Taking the destructive shot out of your game is key. Definitely worth getting L/L check done and adjusted where necessary. When my first 'proper' set of clubs (MP30s) were done - at the same time as a Driver Shaft fitting - a couple were out considerably (the 6 iron had the loft of a 5!)! Copyright 2023 Mitchell Golf Equipment Company. I did this with my current set and the results are great. So it doesnt matter to me what loft a golfers 6 iron is, as long as that loft allows a golfer to launch and spin the ball in a way thats ideal for their swing. Its taking up to 2 degrees off each iron. 1001 Industrial Blvd KBS even notes it in the swing speed recommendations for their different model shafts, as their very lightweight steel shafts are about a full flex softer frequency than the standard weight counterpart. . So glad this was posted. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. If you bend lie, you will effect swingweight. Golfers change the lie angle of a club to better their chances of hitting the center of the clubface. That means someone who has a ballflight thats too low, he delivers the head with less loft than needed, and by that less than the design of the head is meant to be played with, so he cant go wrong by tweaking lofts weaker. 50*, 54* bent to 55* and 60*, Putter- Taylormade Spider Tour w/ flow neck I already have a udi 2i and am too cheap to buy a 1i to replace it. The ball came out much higher and shorter, just like you would expect from a 63*. Pasted as rich text. And why really do you need to do it besides being able to brag about hitting the ball farther? Or Ping Glide Stealth, 54,58 SS. While golf club manufacturers certainly try to make a consistent product, there are often inconsistencies in the lofts and lies of the clubs and they may not be progressively consistent from one club to another. So to get the most performance out of each iron, for these low ball hitters, we need to add loft. It is common for the golfers I fit to hit todays irons, which average about 2 degrees less loft per club, as high as their current set (if not higher). I draw the ball naturally so I dont want too much offset on the clubs, I think it will be easier if I just go and get some wedges to sort out the gapping issue. What amazes me the most is how many golfers will continually spend thousands of dollars on golf equipment but never take the initiative to change those fundamental things that will help them really improve their skills and abilities. That is why getting the numbers is so important. Yes, thats essentially what Im asking. But Im not sure whats being accomplished with weakening irons. Club fitters are able to bend clubs to increase or decrease the lie angle using a loft, lie bending machine. The new grooves should also be mentioned as allowing the ball to slide up the face a little more compared to the older grooves. You might find that you ask yourself if you are better or worse than the average golfer? In some cases "craftsman's" marks on the hosels may result from bending them to the required loft / lie. Tiger Woods plays his irons in weaker lofts and he doesnt seem to have any distance issues! Often, golfers think they need to make more birdies in order to score better or become a better golfer, when in reality it is minimizing the bad shots and bad holes that can have more impact. Can someone please discuss the advantages and disadvantages of increasing loft on an iron by 2 degrees? I believe that you can't really bend your irons too much but to accommodate I am thinking of bending my AP2s 1 degree stronger and AP3s 1 degree weaker so that I have better gaping. Even forged clubheads made of the wrong steel . Generally though as you decrease theloft of a club by one degree, you reduce its bounce a degree at the same time and if you increase the loft by one degree you increase the bounce by a degree. Each one of those sees him rightly disputing the market number one, but Im not sure I can get involved at around 20-25-to-one with any of the favourites, even if they hold excellent claims. What affect would bending an iron 2 degrees stronger have? Mizuno irons can be adjusted to varying degrees depending on model and material type. The 27-year-old made his way onto the top level by virtue of his performance on the Korn Ferry Tour during the combined Covid seasons, and hes doing a great job in honing his craft. If your intent is to modify them by making them one degree strong, you will be changing the play of the iron, and also the physical appearance possible (could be debatable if the human eye can tell one degree, I'm not sure since I have never had to do this to any of my sets.). Odyssey 2-ball Pro-Type milled face putter. The only way you would see a difference is if you put them side by side with another set of Ap2's that are not bent. This is a statistic that is fairly consistent across all abilities of amateur golfers with only a five percent difference across all golfers. May 20, 2016 at 10:43 AM I suspect Ill be waiting a very long time, Amen, finally some one with great insight. I realize it is hard to write to such a diverse audience, but Im going to give it my best with this post, and pose the basic two questions to each of you : If the answer to No. Bettinardi Studio Stock SS28, Didn't think of that. TM TP UDi #1 w/ Diamana DO NOT SEND PMs WITH CLUB TECH QUESTIONS - USE THE PUBLIC FORUM. Well-regarded at home, he mixed his time in junior golf with the likes of Min Woo Lee and Curtis Luck, during which he finishedrunner-up at The Players Amateur before winning the elite Porter Cup and being part of the victorious three-man Australian team at the Eisenhower Trophy, played partly at El Chamaleon, scene of the Mayokaba events on the PGA Tour. Your 4i and 5i will tend to get more rollout than the higher # irons, hence the 3* loft gaps. In the last six years, Tony Finau and Viktor Hovland both broke their maiden here, whilst after a period of personal tragedy, multiple winner, Branden Grace, bounced back to form. Worked very well IMO in terms of reducing spin You will need to check your distances with these gapped lofts. TM TPx. MyGolfSpy Forum Virtual Golf Tournaments, Forum Featured:Community Map & Course Reviews, By The market is fascinating this week, with world number 376 Andrew Novak leading the field. I would never ever think of doing this on my own. Sitemap. Im 62 and most GI clubs are too long even for me in their stock iteration with this progressive shaft lengths concept. Equipment counts courtesy of Darrell Survey. So the assumption is that the loft alone is what is creating more distance with the new irons. Brent Grantcould very well be one of the seasons fairy stories by September, having already secured his 2022/23 card with a stunning 50-foot birdie putt on the last hole of the Korn Ferry Tour Championship enough to finish 11th and sneak in. By setting up with the ball 1" farther back in your stance, and all other things being exactly the same you are delofting the club by 1.6* based on the average length club.. PING Anser 4 Hybrid I've bent tons of clubs. Idk CG specifics on those models, but I have seen similar results with I20, and G25. They wont question a fitter who recommends that they switch to a 10.5-degree driver instead of an 8.5 or 9.5, because those are established as acceptable driver lofts. Novak has made five cuts from seven starts since qualifying, with the most significant results being 17th in Bermuda (another wind-affected coastal course) 12th at the much higher-grade Sony Open and 29th at last weeks Honda Classic. Bending strong 2* decreases bounce by 2* and increases offset by about .75mm. Compare that with 49-year-old Atwal, with a best of 49th place since 2021 and an average first-round placing of around 120th for his three starts in 2023, and Scott Brown, admittedly a former winner here, but now 719th in the world and who has, since September, withdrawn twice during tournaments, and missed his last two cuts (Pebble and Honda) ranking 99th and 136th for his first round he certainly looks wrong in every way. Brilliant information ! And yes it is common to not have an iron longer than 6 or 5 for some of these guys because they carry them all the same distance, and then hybrids come into play. It's a club you pick off the turf anyway. First, is it safe to have P790s bent that much? It just depends. sorry, didnt mean increase loft. Hes happy to answer any of your questions! I'm not so much of a digger with long irons, and I thought about getting my rogue 5i bent a degree stronger and not carry a 4. Your email address will not be published. There are however a few key points that golfers need to know about changing the lie angle of their club so that they can get the most out of their club. I meant decrease loft and make stronger. Shane Lowry on the new Srixon ZX Mk II line (fairway wood, utility, ZX5/ZX7 irons). TM Spider Mallet w/ Carbon insert OK, quick question. Your link has been automatically embedded. Loft is used to get the irons back to the proper launch window. Using like say an Older Macgregor blade butter knife with a thin sharp leading edge on the sole if you deloft more than 1 degree or so you have a chance of digging to China. If the customer cant get the 4 iron in the air, pull that too and give them a hybrid that will get in the air. Thanks everybody for the help! Plenty have broken their duck here, and now the Puerto Rico curse has been resigned to history lets get with a couple of players who have their best days in front of them. Seems that the article could have suggested that for higher swing speed players, the stronger lofts and COG location is necessary to not have the ball shoot straight up. There you can see exactly what it takes to be an average amateur golfer. This is a dumb question but were you fit for them? Your email address will not be published. "If you have any doubt about the hand position, think of this scenario. A Good Fit for a Clubfitter is the Post Fit. The question is, again, Do you really want to get better at golf?. For you lower swing speed players, go to blades with weaker lofts or better yet go to an old vintage blades with the pitching wedge 52 degrees, and you can hit the ball farther hehe. Even if you want to say a weakened 4 iron is longer in length than a 5 iron of the same loft and therefore goes farther, your gaps in your set will still be equally proportionate. If a golfer was a digger, will he/she still get somewhat better turf interaction with the GI irons vs. with a players irons? Ping G30 irons w/Recoil 95 A long iron doesn't have much bounce anyway since it was made to not take a big divot. I would be using it off the ground as well, a little of both. Clamp the piece in so only a 1/2 inch below where you want the bend in the angle iron is flush with the top of the vise. Good point. Copyright 2022 MyGolfSpy But if your best place for improvement is in your approach shots or play with the long clubs, you simply must work on your fundamentals of the golf swing. You can post now and register later. Lots of good comments here. I highly recommend that golfers get fitted before making a large purchase on golf clubs. The most common complaint I hear from golfers looking for new irons is that all the lofts are jacked strong. If someone is playing an iron set, for instance, from the late 1990s or earlier they will most likely find their irons to be 2-to-3 degrees weaker than todays game-improvement irons, and even some players irons. 5 Testers Needed! If you change your AOA and go 2* steeper, both delivered loft and bounce is reduced by 2* The bounce on the 3-iron is already 0 degrees, so will bending the club for a stronger loft make the bounce go negative? It is hard for some golfers to understand how irons with more loft can help them hit the ball farther, and this is understandable. I'm curious what effect bending the irons 1 or 2 degrees strong would have on the irons playability. Potentially, this would mean the toe digs in and your shots go right (right handed). More ball speed helps them keep the ball in the air longer, which raises their maximum height. Equipment counts courtesy of Darrell Survey. Below, you'll see the results. I completely agree with this! December 27, 2014 in Club Making/Repair & DIY Projects. Say you have a modern set that is 3-PW, 19*-45*. JavaScript is disabled. Powered by Invision Community. I teach golf on the Eastern side of Michigan where I am the Director of Instruction for three golf courses. Clear editor. Training Aids, GPS Devices, Apps, Accessories & More. Titleist 620 MB 5-9 Oban CT 125 Golfers who know this information will have a much easier time controlling their ball flight, hitting the center of the clubface more consistently. Still have questions? Currently I play a set of old-school Ping Eye 2s, which I love, but I want the benefits of modern irons and forged heads. 5 Testers Needed! You dont need to bend the clubs. Never go more than 2 degrees when making adjustments. When this happens, its usually the result of some type of inconsistency in the metallurgy of the club. In a typical golf set, loft increases as shaft length decreases. That said, no equipment can make up for poor fundamentals in your approach to moving a golf ball around three to four miles of real estate in the least number of strokes. It is common for the golfers I fit to hit todays irons, which average about 2 degrees less loft per club, as high as their current set (if not higher). No matter what your skill level, you will not optimize your performance with outdated or ill-fitted golf clubs. You hit the golf ball off of the heel of the club often causing the golf ball to hook or pull, You are playing clubs too short for you (again. That's what I did with my 4i: took out the 95 gram KBS shaft and replaced it with a 75-gram SteelFiber 780 HLS hybrid shaft. I am 2 handicap, playing Scottish Links golf, smooth tempo, 80-90mph, pretty straight flight, shallow divot. Just curious but, can I bend a set of titleist cb718 to the titleist ap2 718 specs? But the end result for an iron fitting is the same: I want the customer to leave with a set of irons that produce the best possible launch conditions for them. Upload or insert images from URL. TM M2 8.5* Graphite Design Tour AD GP 6X+ This happens probably most frequently with wedges, when a person wants to play 3 instead of 4 wedges for example. Calla SuperHot (Orange preferred) ||Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag. Brent Grant always brings the energy ?? Now if you take some of the modern GI irons with the thick sole and rounded leading edge (Infiniti brand Assure comes to mind) you can de loft or strong loft it 3 or 4 degrees with no problem at all. We dive into a subject we get A LOT of questions about, bending your clubs properly. 4-AW with juiced lofts is the same set as an old 3-PW that would probably be 22*-48*. See below the make percentage for an average golfer from varying distances. Arnold Palmer Invitational 2023 (*** NO LIV DISCUSSIONS/REFERENCES ***), Custom Ping i230 5-UW KBS Tour R+ Power Spec, G425 3 wood with GD TP, Ping Kaili Shaft,King Tec Hybrid, Jaws Raw & Zipcore Wedge, Airmax 97, Apex UW. Why would you weaken the lofts of every club and increase the bounce angle by a proportionate amount if you could just get rid of the 3 iron and add a gap wedge? PXG 0311P Gen 3 - 5to PW - Nippon 125 X The JPX-825 Pro's are all 1 degree stronger than the MP-H5's. So, I was thinking that I would have the new iron bent one degree strong so that it fits with the rest of my set. Callaway MD 3 48 bent to 50 KBS 610 S+ In fact, a sound, fundamental hold on the club is the first step in setting up for a technically sound golf swing. Will bending irons 2 degrees strong promote more of a draw ball flight? Military. If anyone thought the Honda Classic had a below-par field, dont show them this weeks Puerto Rico Open. Using a club bending machine to change the angle on a golf club is among the fastest ways to improve a players ball flight. - Chick Evans, Irons: Mizuno T-Zoid True 5, 7 and 9-irons, Wedge: Mizuno S18 54* and Top Flite chipper, I will add a little to what was posted above. ***GIVEAWAY*** Cleveland CBX ZipCore Wedge! Titleist U500 3 & 4 Oban Kiyoshi Purple Tour Reserve Paste as plain text instead, The 4 iron will have a negative bounce if you bend them 2 degrees. Golfers change the lie angle of a club to better their chances of hitting the center of the clubface. Well this article outlines a variety of statistics which will help you pinpoint which areas of the game you are above or below average. If experience still trumps explanations, simulations and printouts, print out some ebay listings there are lots of older sets with barely used 3 irons. And visa versa, if the original bounce is low and/or the club has a sharp leading edge, the reduction in bounce may have a significant impact on playability. They know how much torque to put on the hozzel. But if a high spin player gets a 15 launch and 6000 RPM with a 115 MPH ball speed with a 5-iron, then whats wrong with that? If your Ball Speed was higher than that, say up to 125, which is a few MPH slower than PGA Tour average, you would want spin to stay within 200-300 RPMs higher, and Launch Angle to come down to about 14*. Clamp the piece of angle iron into the vise. Bending 2* strong will increase the clubs digging tendencies. The club was designed and built with certain characteristics. The 2 that were out the most went from 'avoided' clubs to 'favourites'! Im also adding a 5 wood to the bag and changing to a 54/60 wedge set-up. The drop off in make percentage from 3-6 feet and 6-9 feet is huge. If the hosel design and manufacturing processes allow it, the lie of an iron can be bent 3-4 degrees or more with no compromise to the integrity of the head. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Titleist AP3 3 iron 2 degrees strong AMT black stiff shaft at the best online prices at eBay! The golfwrx wannabe touring pros will argue otherwise.. After reading the headline I was expecting a slightly different subject discussed but this topic is something Ive been wondering about myself. That is a two club difference. Contact Us Nick is a Certified Performance Club Fitter at Carl's Golfland in Bloomfield Hills, Mich. The difference after they were set to factory lofts and lie for my swing was amazing! Now as lower handicappers, we will probably not have our hands at impact fluctuating 3, 4 or 6 inches, but I would not say mine are within an inch of exactly the same place every time. You don't say what club it is, but Rev said it sounds like a long iron and I agree. I am a good long iron player and prefer them over fairway woods and especially hybrids. (others have mentioned) I went to GG with my pops and hit the speedblade 9i for sheets and was hitting them 165-170why? Here are the different ways fitters change the lie angle of a club: A club can either be bent to an upright position (toe higher than heel) or flat (toe lower than heel) usually in increments of 1 or 2 degrees. And here is why. The average golfer leaves 65 percent of all approach shots short of the green. I have to explain that the design allows the iron to have a stronger loft. It depends on several factors including as mentioned above how steep your swing is and if you are a "digger" or "picker". Driver- Tmag 2017 M2 tour issue 8.5* actual loft 7.8* w/ HZRDS Green PVD 70TX" Titleist Vokey 47* Oban CT 125, 51*, 55*, and 59* Shimada Tour Wedge Black Yeah, you can bend them strong and not notice the difference in terms of look. I use Ping I Blades and Ping have a 'power spec' on their website for these where the lofts can be bent to and still retain playabilty. It was suggested that I would bring my launch and spin down a bit with making my irons 1-2 stronger. Thats basically what companies are doing anyway. After a quick gapping review we bent 2 clubs and tried those out which gave a good base to work from. Titleist 818 H1 19 HybridMiura CB-57 4-PW would 2 degrees be too much and change the club's characteristics too much? Yes, it would make the clubs a little 'longer' (with a lower ball flight), but it might not be worth . Driver: GolfWRX is on the ground in Orlando ahead of the 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational at Bay Hill Club & Lodge. Hes learned nothing Olympic legend launches scathing attack on Tiger Woods over tampon apology, Golf fans left bemused following bizarre Jim Nantz blunder, Best driver 2023: Expert club fitters recommend the best driver for your swing speed, An UP-CLOSE look at Tiger Woods famous Scotty Cameron putter, David Feherty ridiculed for Greg Norman comment during LIV broadcast, Tour pro says LIV would be done if Brooks Koepka returned to PGA Tour, TOUR REPORT: McIlroy switches drivers during Genesis Invitational (plus Tigers iron change). Absolutely GREAT analogy RoverRick. It wasn't so much the distance I was concerned with but that I hit it a bit too high with a normal swing and it caused some issues on windy days. Upload or insert images from URL. having a discussion with a friend and we are in disagreement. Low bounce irons can become more digging prone from this change. make it a "digger" per say? Terms & Conditions If this continues well end up with 25* 7 irons and carry 6 or 7 gap wedges. Feel free to browse around and see if anything catches your eye! I've had plenty of clubs bent a degree or two and never had an issue with how the clubs performed, even a wedge. 00bolt, May 18, 2017 in WRX Club Techs. So if you are steep or tend to take a pretty good divot, you may not want to bend them more than a degree. Clubs are mass-produced with certain manufacturing variances in every factory. But bending an iron weak is not as well understood by many golfers, so they are more hesitant. Sure, the top few are valid members of the PGA Tour, all with their legitimate claims in this lowly class, but we then have the likes of Chad Campbell (unranked after not being seen for almost three years) and Frank Lickliter (now outside the world top 3000) bringing up a rear lacks depth. TaylorMade Aero Burner TP 15 / Matrix White Tie 70-X I realize this can be affected by angle of attack, swing speed, iron/shaft design, and ball design. Paste as plain text instead, Ping Redwood Anser- the "real deal!". Changing the loft on clubs can really screw with the visual look of them at address and change the playing characteristics. Bounce follows loft in a 1:1 ratio. But, as lofts are strengthened the gaps become compressed on the long end and widened on the short. Would bending it serve the same result? The club only has .5 degrees of bounce as it is. Bag Old School Jones Original non stand. This applies to both face angle and lie. I have read that it can create "diggers" is this true? The Topgolf Blue Flag Challenge: Can you go 5-for-5 from 155 yards? All rights reserved. Novak has finished 11th after the first round in Hawaii, fifth at Torrey Pines and in the top-30 at Pebble Beach and at the Honda. As long as the spin rate is acceptable, the new irons, because of their lower center of gravity, are going to produce more speed off the face (due to the lower loft and lower COG) and more distance. When you make the club loft stronger you decrease loft, when you make it weaker you increase the loft. Plus, those superlight steel shafts in the 85-90 gram range feel like a softer flex than what is listed, probably due to the thinner steel in the shaft. Older irons can be bent to achieve better gaping and additional distance, but the distance increases will be very small. Will it affect offset? Your previous content has been restored. Sounds like it's a long iron. The ball came out much higher and shorter, just like you would expect from a 63*. Just about every club that leaves the factory won't be 100% spot on for loft, manufacturing tolerances are going to throw that out. Your previous content has been restored. Odyssey #7 Tank, I got a set of Titleist 716 cb that are bent 2 degrees strong (they end up being 1 Degree weaker than my old z745 I believe). TM TP EF Tour Issue 50* & 56*, 62* A golf club can be bent two degrees flat when the lie angle is lowered and the heel of the club is raised to a position that is higher than the toe of the club. A 4 iron only has 1 degree of bounce standard so will I have negative bounce when bent two degrees strong? It would increase if you added loft. Much of Harrison Endycotts claims were covered in the2023 Players To Followlist, but the summary is worth repeating to justify his selection this week. These are topics that have been kicked around and that are important in todays market, so articles will most likely be touching on them in the future. 5-G people hit it further because of stronger lofts is such a wifes tale. Feb 3, 2013. It is a taylormade udi 2i that I want to bend from 18* to 16*. I guess Ill need to have my next irons bent weaker leaving some marks on the blade and hosel. It is a lot easier to find what lie angle you need in your golf clubs and purchase a set rather than have to individually bend each club. Im contemplating a set of Mizuno MP-53 irons. And here is why. March 27, 2015 at 11:41 AM Craig, Even the most skilled repair professionals can occasionally break a club. By The swing is dynamic and I seriously doubt that I can hit two balls on the course exactly the same, with my body being exactly in the same position every time. Endycotts weakness so far seems to be the driver, and with his stats suggesting he recovers well top-15 for approaches in recorded events this non-penal track should suit. Ball speed from the new irons is what is creating the distance. traditional lofts ftw (let the technology be what determines added length/distance, not loft changes). While you might prefer the overlap, interlock or full-finger style, the hold on the golf club is pretty much the same the upper portion of the grip has to be under the pad of the upper hand and held more in the fingers than the palm of both hands. You might as well get a distance gap before bending. You may have heard golfers talk about how they need to use a flatter club or that they need to change their lie angle. Yes, I'm a club gigolo. Tour Preferred X or TP5x ball. Good info to pass along regarding COG. One good example comes to mind. Another reason why stronger lofts dont always mean more distance is something I do frequently to help golfers hit the ball farther weaken lofts. for the better golfer, these lofts leave nothing at the bottom of the bag. Iron lofts can be bent up to 2 degrees stronger than standard (note: making the loft stronger will increase the offset and reduce the bounce . I did this several years ago and it ended up being quite expensive, so dont be me and order your custom set all at once! Strengthening adds offset, the sole of the club is effectively moved back, the hosel is fixed, therefore the leading edge of the sole moves away from the ball, adding offset. with more loft than its designed for, so he cant go wrong by bending heads stronger. What still kills me are the guys coming in and demanding a lower lofted driver thinking it will give them more distance. "so, any advice, I keep air mailing greens with my PW from 140, this is really hurting my score. well unfortunately people buy clubs based on their ego and the club manufactures feed it. As club fitters, you have to find the balance between measurable results and what the customer THINKS is happening. Check out the different lie angles of a standard 8 iron from these three companies: I know that the difference between these angles doesnt seem like much. pic.twitter.com/dNhfPEcR4F https://t.co/Talvwe7Kng. You can post now and register later. Ping G425 Max 10.5 - Ventus Black 6X or G425 LST Ventus - Black 7X, Ping G425 Max 14.5 - Ventus Blue 7X Study those players and mimic their set-up and you will take another giant step toward playing better golf. Ordering & Information It is very easy to do these modifications, and also recommended by a lot of folks to have your set checked either frequently or at the end of each year in case any changes happened during the season from general play. GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, Tuesday at 04:47 PM, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 20, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 13, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 6, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, January 31, By Titleist Response to USGA / R&A Distance Insights, Bending 716MB irons 1 or 2 degrees strong.
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